Sunday, October 2, 2011

Having An Eating Disorder

Girl With An Addiction is trying to lose weight.

If you know me, you'll tell me that I'm being ridiculous, and that I need to be putting on weight, not losing it. I disagree. 

An eating disorder is a mental illness, that eats away at your mind and body. It controls you, makes you think you're not worthy of that number on the scales, it manipulates you to the point where all you're doing is restricting yourself from what you want to eat, and what you should be eating.

WARNING: If you think I shouldn't be writing this, then seriously, piss off. I can write whatever I want, and I figured seeing as though I wrote about my suicide attempt last time, I may as well write about this.

I haven't been officially diagnosed, but my psychologist and psychiatrist believe I have a possible eating disorder. 
I agree, and disagree to an extent.

Yes, I think I am disgustingly fat.
Yes, I think I will never be as beautiful or as thin as my best friend.
Yes, I am the average weight for my age and height.

No, I do not believe anything you try and put into my mind about me being thin enough.
No, I will not accept any compliments you give me. I say thank you, and that's it.

Last year I was put on some medication. One of the side affects is loss of appetite. Me hating food and wanting to be thinner, along with new medication, lost about 10kg in 8 weeks. I didn't notice the difference at all. I would weigh myself every week and skip meals all the time, in the hopes I would be as thin as those girls who model, with the nice thigh gaps, and collar bones that stick out.

Twisted? Yes.

Did it work? Yes.

All up, I lost about 15kg, and people started noticing. I would cut and cut if I didn't lose enough weight, if I wasn't what I thought was "perfect".

I cut down my restricting, stopped secretly doing x amount of sit ups and star jumps, and was forced by friends and family to eat more. 
Finally, I forced myself to stop taking the medication, and over time, the kilos started piling back on. I went from 40kg, to 50kg, and I was finally recovering. 

Honestly, I look back now and wish I was back there again, weighing that dangerously low 40kg. I miss being like that, with my fingers being able to touch when I wrapped them around my arm past my elbow, with my collar bones pointing out sharply, and the lovely gap between my thighs. 

For once, I thought I was beautiful.

But not beautiful enough.

I started falling into the same trap again at the start of the year, but I was mentally and emotionally worse. I weighed myself even more than what I used to, and I started binging. It was horrible. I would get in such a state that I'd just find whatever food that I could eat, and eat it. I felt so fat and disgusting afterward, that I would cry and cry, and try and force myself to vomit all the food up. I only succeeded in purging a few times, and it was horrible. Horrible not because of the cramps I suffered afterward, not from a scratchy throat and teeth marks on my nuckles. But horrible because it was so addictive. I decided it was too much effort to constantly be trying to purge, so I stuck with exercise instead.

I try doing at least a couple of hundred of sit ups and star jumps daily, if I can squeeze it in without anyone noticing, which is very difficult seeing as though I'm forbidden to be alone... 

Counting calories is one of my habits now. I try not to count so much, but whenever I get the chance, I will. I usually spend the first half of break at school counting the calories of everything I plan to eat that day, then I calculate how much exercise I need to do to burn them off. It's consuming, and dangerously addictive.

The last time I tried purging was a few days ago. I drank about 3L of water, a glass and a half of warm salt water. Sitting front of the toilet for a half hour shoving a toothbrush and my fingers down my throat seemed like enough to vomit everything I'd eaten from the minutes before. But, no, I was unsuccessful. So, I cried for about 10 minutes and decided I would better tomorrow, thinner tomorrow. I would not eat anything the next day at all, and if I did, it would need to be below 500 calories.

This is what an eating disorder does, it controls you and shoves these images of "better" people with "better" bodies, until all you can do is obey it, and you lose control of your mind and your body.

If you want an eating disorder, think again. You don't.

One minute you wake up and all you can think of is how much you want to eat. So you eat as much as you can, everything around you, until you’re so full you could burst.

You begin to hate yourself, but you don’t care, because your wanting to eat is fueled by your hate. 

Hate becomes your passion. You hate yourself, you hate yourself for eating so much. You want to get rid of it. You need to get rid of all the fat you’re made up of. You need to feel your ribs sticking out of your body, you need to feel the air sucking past your collar-bones. 
You desire to be different, like those girls with the gap between their thighs, but better.

You start working out, but things just get worse. You’ve lost 5kg and people are getting worried but you can’t see anything. You stand in front of the mirror everytime you walk past it just to make sure you look nice, and if you don’t, you need to be punished.


You must count all your calories and stay below Xkg. You must go for a run or do 200 sit ups every morning and night. 

But it doesn’t work fast enough. Your clothes are almost falling off you, but you don’t care, you’re possessed by this desire to be perfect.

To be thin.

You can’t take it anymore, it isn’t you anymore. You have become the disorder, the disease, the murderer. 

You smell of vomit and sick because you need to purge and vomit all your food up after you eat, no matter where or who you’re with. 

Your eyes are all red and puffy, but it’s okay, because they will just think you’ve been crying, right?


People will start asking questions.
Why are you not eating at school anymore? 
Why are you going to the bathroom all the time?
Why are you so obsessed with counting calories?

You still don’t care, because you’re getting thinner and prettier, and that’s what matters. You’re being manipulated, and you’re okay with it.

Do you love your hair? Not anymore. Everytime you wake up, you're covered in your own straggly, dry strands. You brush your hair everyday, and it just keeps coming out.

You can’t walk for more than 20 minutes or stand for more than an hour because you’ll pass out, or collapse.

But, you still don’t care, because you’re getting thinner. People are finally noticing the beautiful gap between your thighs, the lovely marks on your knuckles from shoving your fingers down your throat, the wonderful way your cheek bones protrude from your face.

You don’t care, because you’re almost perfect, you’re so close  to being thin, so close. Just a little more exercise today. Just a little more purging after your 3rd binge this week.

You wake up on a hospital bed with a drip in your arm, and your life slowly disappearing.

You’re dying.

But it’s okay, because you’re finally thin. You can finally be beautiful, and perfect.

You don’t want an eating disorder.

I suppose I wanted to write this because it is something I struggle with everyday. I have to force myself to eat at least 2 meals a day, if not just one.

I don't want anyone to end up like me, or worse. It is not worth it, and you're so much more beautiful than you think.

You don't deserve that, and neither does your body.

Stay strong.

Girl With An Addiction
xoxo :P

Thursday, July 21, 2011

Friday 20th May, 2011.

Girl With An Addiction is getting serious now.

"I believe that everything happens for a reason. People change so that you can learn to let go, things go wrong so that you appreciate them when they're right, you believe lies so you eventually learn to trust no one but yourself, and sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together." ~Marilyn Monroe

This blog will be a very touchy one, and so I ask that you don't judge. Seriously, I'm already doubting whether I'll be able to even finish it, let alone stand people's pathetic and daft judgements.

And stress less, I won't go into much detail, and everyone shall stay anonymous.

I wouldn't say I've had the best life. Actually, I'd say the complete opposite. No, I'm not dramatising and being melo-dramatic. If you think I am, then you seriously have no idea. Take this blog as an insight to the what actually goes on in someone's head, and of what's actually out there. If you're niave, then you need to face it one day- these things happen, a lot more than you expect. Accept it, the world is a really awful place, and if you don't open your eyes and take in some experience, then you're pretty much doomed. Oh, and being blunt is my specialty.

I don't want to sound conceited, but I'm a good person. I have good values, I follow rules (when I want to, haha), I try very hard not to judge, I don't gossip, and I generally tell the truth. I like school, I have a life plan, and I try and see the good in everyone. I believe that every person is a good person; they just have bad things happen to them, or happen to go down the wrong road.

The past few years for me, in a list of adjectives, have been:

  • Traumatic
  • Fantastic
  • Awful
  • Horrid
  • Fun
  • Great
  • Spiritual
  • Deep
  • Happy
  • Depressing
  • Rollercoaster-like

That list is weird to me. Want to know why? "Yes, do tell!" It's up and down. It's got a whole list of words that are so contradictory, it hurts my brain. That, or I'm just tired. 

I have a lot of things going on, and whether or not you know me as a close friend, a co-worker, a family member, or an acquaintance, you don't need to know every detail, so I'll keep this short and simple.

I would have written this after it actually happened, but I haven't been very creative lately, for reasons I shall explain soon enough. So I do apologise for the massive delay, and I hope you can all forgive me!

Friday the 20th of May was the day that changed my life. The start of the beginning (or something new as Zac Efron would say). It was one of the worst days of my life. 
I did a few things that I am not ashamed of, nor do I regret them. I say this because it has made me who I am right now, right this day, right this hour, and right this minute.

Yes, I didn't need to do what I did, but I did, and so I faced the consequences of my actions, and in some ways, still am.

I had a breakdown that Friday. A huge breakdown. I cannot even describe it properly. Often, I'm prone to having a few minor breakdowns and anxiety issues, but not like this. This is a very rare thing; I hope.

The day before (Thursday), I was told by a friend in my year that a few of my so called "friends" had been spreading rumours about me. Horrible rumours that I don't even want to repeat and I cant express my hurt and frustration to the full extent that I feel. 
3 people who I considered great, respecting, loyal friends betrayed my trust, and destroyed what I thought were good friendships. 
You know who you are, and I want to know that I want absolutely nothing to with you, and I want you to never think of us as anything more than acquaintances and classmates. You are nothing but that to me, and hopefully never will be. This may be conceited, but I know full well that I deserve better than the "friendship" that you gave me. 

Anyways, so I was obviously extremely hurt and upset about what had happened. I went to first period as usual, participated in class a little more quiet than usual, and left class when the bell rang in tears.

I couldn't take it anymore.
I'd had enough.
I couldn't stand people acting the way they were.
I couldn't stand who I was.
I couldn't stand school.
I couldn't stand church.
I couldn't handle anything anymore.

I went to the bathroom and just sat on the floor for about half an hour. I was feeling so many emotions. I couldn't think straight. Everything was a mass of obscene situations, a blur of thoughts, and I was crash-landing, and fast.
My make-up had run, my eyes were sore, and my throat was dry from coughing, from crying so much.

I was breaking down, worse than I ever had before.

Now, before you freak out, which you will, I want to clear something up.
I have depression. And anxiety.
And yes, I am mentally unstable. 
I have a long history of horrid self-harm and self-destruction that i do not wish to delve into. 
I am on anti-depressants and I'm getting there.

Usually when I am close to this point, I would self-harm, in any way possible. I know it's bad, I know it can ruin your life, and others, but you see, I don't care. there's no point in explaining why, because you won't understand. You say you could, but unless you're me, you won't. Ever.

By the time I actually thought it would be smart to go to the office, I didn't care anymore. I was doomed. It was over.

So, I self-harmed. Terribly. 

If you know me well enough, you'll know what I actually did.

Daft me, forgetting it was a sport day, forget that about a dozen plus girls would be getting changed in the bathroom not long after. 

I got out my phone, messaged a good friend, and he got my best friend to come and find me. 

Sure enough, she found me within 5 minutes.

And there I was, in the last cubicle, mascara smudged below my eyes, my fringe and clothes damp from tears, and the cubicle a mess.

As soon as she saw me the tears just started rolling for both of us.

The other girls (uncertain of what in the hell was going on) took that as a sign to get  a teacher, and leave.

I don't really remember the next half hour, but I know a few teachers came in, the bathroom was in lock-down for the whole 40 minutes of break, and people were freaking out.

Soon enough I was bandaged up and taken to the office, where I spent the next hour or so being interrogated by the staff. Twas very fun. Not.

I don't really think you all need to know what happened after, but the whole ordeal was a lot worse for everyone else than it was me.

I'm not really sure what to say at this point, so I'll just leave with a few last notes:

The world is brutal. If you don't start realising who you're true friends are now, than chances are you won't know for a long time, or you may never know. Trust your instincts when it comes to friends, and try not to trust too much. You could end up having pathetic, selfish, heartless morons spreading rumours about you!

Self-harm and self-destruction is not the answer. It may seem like it at the time, but years down the track you'll look back at those scars and wonder "I could have lived so much happier..." So why don't you? Make an effort to do at least one good thing a day. It's contagious and makes you feel better. I never believed people when they said that it's never the right answer, and "it will only make you feel worse." But I suppose you don't realise just how much it pulls you down, until after you've made it past the finish line.

I want to especially say thank you to everyone who helped me. My teachers, my classmates, my youth leaders, my friends, and my family.
I especially thank a few people in particular:

Anonymous Friend #1:
Thank you. You have been so close to me for a while now, and I feel like we are blood-related. In some ways, I think of you as my other half. "You complete me" Haha.You were the first person to find me after my incident, you were the first person to cry with me, you were the first person to hug me, and you were the first person to say "I love you, Jess" on that day. Even though you had no idea what to say or do, just knowing that you wanted to help, and knowing that you care for me, was enough to make me realise how lucky I am to have you as a friend, and as a sister.
Thank you for sticking by me, for never giving up on me, and for listening to me rant about how much I hate life and everything in it.
I love you.

Anonymous Friend #2:
I don't even know where to begin with you! Over the past year (maybe?) I've gone to you for advice, prayer, bible-verses, venting, yelling, swearing, laughing, and loving. You have listened to me rage about nothing, vent about family, complain about school work, and cry over guys. I know for a fact that you prayed for me so much during that time, even if you don't admit it; I know you did, and still do. You gave the best advice out of everyone I went to, and I know I'm stubborn and don't want to listen, but I'd often go back over our conversations and take your advice... Well, some of it. Haha. I honestly have no idea where I would be without you now. Even though your constant bible-verse-giving ways can be irritating at times, and even though I may yell and fight with you over nothing, I want you to know that I really do appreciate it. You are truly a blessing in my life, and I hope we will always be as close as we are today. 
I love you.

Anonymous People #3:
I'm counting you as a whole, because that's how I see you, and I hope you cry while you read this. I've known one of you since before I was born, and the other for the past few years. I love you both with all my heart and without you my life would, literally, be nothing.
There are not enough words to describe how much you both mean to me, so I'll sum it up (that, and I don't want to cry):
I love you.

I did these things because I was being bullied. Bullied by people I considered as equals, as friends. They are not, and never will be, anything more to be.
Bullying is a serious issue, and I sincerely hope these people know the devastating consequences this can have on people, and on them.

I hope you got something out of this blog, and not just thoughts like, "oh she's just overreacting." You're entitled to your own opinions, but if you really believe that, then you do not know me at all, and I suggest you do not judge a book by it's a cover.

One last thing:
I couldn't give a crap who reads this. Coworker, teacher, classmate, friend, family member; I don't care. What's happened, has happened. I am not ashamed. I will no hide behind a facade, and be someone who I'm not.

"I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best." ~Marilyn Monroe

I am me, and you can't change that.

Girl With An Addiction

Friday, June 3, 2011

Death, And The Effects Of It.

Girl With An Addiction is randomly posting this, because she feels a connection to death.

I'm just going to point out the title and my introductory line to this blog. Perhaps it's a bit bold to say, or a little strange, but I feel as though I have this real "connection" to death. Whether it be from my history, now, or even a weird "spiritual connection" to death and those who have passed, I feel as though I need to discuss this.

I've been thinking about life a lot lately, and the grief that comes from losing a loved one. Just a moment ago, I had Hilary Duff's song Someone's Watching Over Me  play through my mind, followed my Evanescence's My Immortal. You know when you have one of those mind montages of someone you've lost play through your mind? I had one of those. Completely out of the blue.

Today I was walking through one of my "hometowns", and went into Golo to buy something. At the counter there was a little stand for SIDS and Kids Red Nose Day products. Straight away, I picked up one of the bracelets and bought it. 

Now, for those of you who don't know what it is, SIDS stands for Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, and affects many many families, including mine.

For those of you who have been affected by SIDS, I'm not going to say "I know how you feel, and I'm sorry," because that's just daft. I've been terribly affected and scarred for life from SIDS, but unless I'm you, I really have no idea how you feel. If you're someone who has lost a sibling to SIDS, then I have an idea of how you're feeling, and the grieving pain you suffered and still suffer, but I don't know how you feel. You may have had a closer connection to your lost one, or you may have never known them. Either way, I'll never know how you truly feel, and I'll never be able to fully grasp the loss you're dealing with. I say this because everyone deals with death in different ways. 

If you're a mother or father who have lost someone to SIDS, then I can never imagine the pain and anguish you have felt/feeling. I truly hope that you're dealing the best way you can.

The reason why I don't apologise to people who have lost someone to SIDS, is because it wasn't my fault. I personally find it very irritating when people apologise to me. Yes, I don't mind if they say "I hope you're okay," or "my condolences to your family," but don't apologise, because you didn't kill them.
Bold? Perhaps, but it's true. What's the point in apologising if you didn't kill them?
It would be like saying "I'm sorry" to someone who has had their house broken into and their valuables stolen. You didn't steal them, so why apologise?

To be honest, I don't know what to say to anyone who has lost someone to SIDS. I know from personal experience that a simple, "I hope you're holding up" suffices for me, and it's helpful to know that people are caring.

If you don't grasp the full extent of what SIDS is, read the following:
From 1989-2007, 3704 infants died from SIDS, along with 2907 Perinatel deaths in 2006 alone (that's 10.3 deaths per 1000 births. Also, Google Perinatel if you don't know what it is). 

That may have no effect on you, and if it doesn't, I desperately urge you to open your eyes and take a look at the world from a perspective other than your own. Scaring you is the last thing I want to do, but this is a really serious and touchy subject, that needs to be discussed for the benefit of everyone. 

If you're a regular reader of my blog, you know my story. If not, then I'll share, again:

When I was four years old, my mother gave birth to my stillborn brother, Jay.
A year later, she had another son, Lachlan, who died of SIDS at six weeks.
That's my story, in very short terms. I suggest you take a read of some of my other blogs, to know what actually happened.

This year will be Jay's 11th birthday, and Lachlan's 10th. I can't actually believe it's been that long already. As  a tradition, I'll be dedicating a blog to each of them, during the weeks of their birthdays and passings. As a symbolic tradition, I will be painting my nails red (to raise awareness for SIDS) and blue (in honour of my brothers). So to any teachers reading this:
I will be wearing nail-polish and SIDS and Kids badges and bracelets. So please, do not ask me to remove them, because I won't, and you'll be hearing a stern word from my family if I do need to remove them.

To everyone who's reading this, I don't want you to treat me as though I have a high sensitivity to talking about it. I may at times, but I'm actually quite open about it.
I know they're gone, and I know my life will never be the same, but I'm happy. Not happy that my two brothers are gone, or that my family is still suffering tragic loss.
But happy that even though I knew them for an extremely short amount of time, I remember them.

I remember how special they were. 
I remember rubbing my mum's belly and telling her how proud I was to be a big sister, when she was carrying Jay. 
I remember playing with Lachlan and hearing him laugh. 
I remember knowing that no matter how small Jay was, he was perfect. 
I remember knowing that no matter how much Lachlan cried, he was perfect.
I remember how much I loved them, and how much they loved me, even if they didn't know me properly.

No matter what, I'll never forget them, and everyday I cherish those memories.

If you've lost someone you loved dearly, I'm not going to tell you to not hide in grief and sadness. It's a way of dealing with it, and it's a way of grieving. But I do ask that you try and be happy that you knew them, be happy that you saw them, and be happy that no matter what, you'll remember them most for the good times you shared.

If you lost someone you didn't know particularly well, or didn't exactly get along with, then I suggest you take a look at why you didn't, and why things turned out the way they did. You'll probably find out a few things you didn't know. You may disagree, you may not, but I believe that every person is a good person. Some of them just follow the wrong path.

I don't know your story. 
But now you know mine, and I'm truly hoping that you understand why I'm randomly blogging about this.

Have a listen to Hilary Duff's Someone's Watching Over Me.

And Evanescence's My Immortal.

At the moment, I wouldn't classify myself as a Christian, but I hope that God loved my brothers.
And I know that they're folding stars.

Biffy Clyro - Folding Stars

Oh and don't forget to buy something from SIDS and Kids this Red Nose Day, on June 14th, and don't forget to roar like a Red Nose Dinosaur!

SIDS and Kids

Red Nose Day

Girl With An Addiction
xoxo =P

Sunday, May 29, 2011

Filling In The Gaps.

Girl With An Addiction hasn't blogged in over two months. This saddens me...I'm actually quite disappointed...

Here's a list of excuses, so you can sympathise:

  • School - Includes assessments, exams, studying, and homework.
  • Church - Includes the Friday afternoon Kids Club, (which I actually left because school became too much), youth, and the services on Sunday.
  • Work - I work about 2-3 times a week, on average. But since my fall back in January (details below), they've cut my shifts, so now I work about 1-2 times a week.
  • My back - Since slipping over at work in January, I've had physio about 2-3 times a week (meaning I miss out on school, and sometimes work), doctors appointments almost every week (also making me miss school), I was on prescribed painkillers everyday for about 2-3 months, and in sick-bay every week. Still in a lot of pain, and still hating it.
  • Sickness - I've had: The cold. The flu. Migraines. And Tonsillitus. My immune system is absolute rubbish, don't even get me started.
  • Emotional stress - Yes, I've been dealing with a lot lately. You'll hear about it in my next blog which should be up shortly.

You're all very lucky that I've had a "creativity boost" as I like to call it, this past week. I actually started writing this last week, but then forgot about it... I'm sorry, I know it's rather tragic that I've forgotten all about my lovely readers... 
    But fret not! For I am back, and my mind is a'rolling for some good writing.

    So, on a farewell note, expect a moving and possibly emotional blog coming soon!

    Have yourselves a lovely week!

    Girl With An Addiction
    xoxo :P

    Saturday, March 12, 2011

    Dating A Non-Christian.

    Girl With An Addiction has a lot to say at the moment.

    This post isn't directed at anyone in particular, rather to those who think it's wrong to date a non-Christian, or to those who think it's alright.

    I've been raised Christian my whole life, so when somebody asks me if I see God as my everything, I would normally say yes. Up until the past few years I'd trusted God with my everything. So much has happened in my life that now I just can't decide if this is really how I want to live my life...

    If you know me well enough, then you'll know why I've made these decisions, and why I refuse to believe in a lot of things. As well as the obvious, you'll also know that I'm very stubborn, and I don't trust anyone easily.

    Over the past year I've been put to the test of my faith many times, some of which that are just too personal for some of you to know. Other times you will know of, if you're lucky enough. And, just like a normal human being, I do have doubts, and plenty of them, about God.

    God has done a lot in my life. I wish He hadn't done most of them, but He has, and so I have to live with that.

    As you all should know (if you actually read my blog, and if you're friends with me), I go to a Christian school, and to youth and church, and so most of my friends profess to be Christian. This post will probably cause an uproar, but it's my blog, so get over it.

    As some of you are well aware of, I'm in a relationship with a non-Christian. I don't see it as a bad thing, but it has brought a lot to my own, and other's attention...

    So, with the permission of the people involved, I've copied a very extensive conversation from Facebook about this issue, and a few others...

    Enjoy reading...

    * * * * *

    Person One
    We need to watch that as Christians, we don't become extremely close friends, or go out with non-Christians. (Deuteronomy 7:3-4, Malachi 2:11, 2 Corinthians 6:14, 1 Kings 11:3-4)

    Disease is contagious, but health is not, likewise, sin is contagious, but holiness does not transfer from one to another very easily.
    Thoughts? (Arguments?)

    • Person Two likes this.

      • Person One 
        I know these verses speak of marriage, but why date a non-christian, if you have no intention of marrying them?
        Also, before you use the excuse that maybe you will help them see God, you would be able to do that better without being emotionally bound to them, and you would be a better witness by saying 'No, God says no, so I say no also, because that is his will.'

      • Me You may as well have just tagged me in the post, or wrote it on my wall.

      • Person One

         Wasn't only for you, otherwise i would have messaged it to you.

      • Me 

      • Me 
        Exactly. I've seen people do it before, so what's to say I can't? Or what if Meg were to date a non-Christian. We could help them become Christians.

      • Person Two

         what if he turns you agaisnt God?

      • Me 
        I highly doubt that, seeing as though he doesn't even have an opinion yet.. Which is good, because then I can help him form an opinion. A good one.

      • Person One 

        But they will more likely help you fall away from God and sin. see 1 kings 11:3-4. Yes, God can use it for good, but by doing it you are disobeying him, and thus you are sinning and need to repent. He is more likely to use it if you are honoring and obeying him. I mean, you can explain to the boyfriend that you cant date him because God says no, and through that, he will see God is more important then he is,. and it may challenge him to ask about it.

      • Person One 

        But, you are showing him that its ok to disobey God, if you want to.

      • Me 
        ‎... But you never know what could happen.
        God says He has a plan, and that we need to spread the Good News. What if this is His way of telling us to share it?

      • Person Two

         lead by example?

      • Person One

         It isnt for us to say, ohh God, use my sin, its for God to say, obey me, and I will use you whatever you do. Show me in the bible (if you don't know, then Google will probably help you-I used it)

      • Me 
        I'm not saying that though. What if it is in God's plan to let us date non-Christians, so we can bring them into a relationship with Him?

      • Person One

         Why would God command us to not do it, if he wanted is to do it? Yeah, he will use it to fulfill his purpose, either way, but from a human perspective, we need to seek to obey God, not live for ourselves.

      • Me 
        Why would God created millions of sinners if only a certain amount were going to Heaven anyway? Why does he let things happen if Jesus has already paid for our sins?

      • Person Three

         it can also,...i think...depend on how strong a faith you have in God

      • Person One

         All who repent and believe will got to heaven. Basically the whole bible backs this up, and only when taken out of context can it be used to argue against it. God created people who wouldnt be saved...because He wanted to. I dont have a true good answer for it, but from our perspective it is a choice, and so obviously some say yes, and some say no. He will do his will through all people, not only through christians

      • Me 
        Exactly also. What if something bad happened in said relationship? Something to cause you to turn to God more than before, because He spoke to you, or because you suddenly have faith in Him? What if He wants you to be in a relationship with a non-Christian so He can help you become a stronger Christian?

      • Person Two

        i disgaree Person One
        you are saying God sends people to hell
        he makes them just so that they can go to hell
        he controls everything they do
        makes him seem evil
        creates things just to condem them an eternity in hell

      • Person One

         If he wanted that, why would he make it clear that he doesnt want that? He wants us to know non-christians/evangelize, but if your emotionally attached to someone, it is heaps harder to challenge them yeah? and harder to tell then that they are wrong

      • Me 
        Yet another of my main points on this topic, Person Two.
        And, if God's plan is so perfect, then why did He take away my brothers?

      • Person One

        Person Two. I have struggled with this. God doesn't want people to go to hell, obviously. It's hard to get your head around (impossible?) but God has 2 kinds of will. Sovereign will, that will happen, and permissive will, that he allows things to happen. So, God';s sovereign will will happen. If he wants me to do something, it will happen. But, we have a choice, and so we choose something, and he permits it to happen, even if it isn't exactly what he wants to happen. He has a plan in it, he uses it, and will glorify himself through it, but he doesn't have to like it as such. Make some sort of sense?

        Jess. This I cant answer. He had a plan in it, and he will/has used it. This is where we must trust him. I know, very hard to do, but we have to.

        Person Two, how can we trust God, if he doesn't have any control over what happens?

      • Person Two

        he does control some things but not everything he knows what will happen but he doesnt always control it because thats not what he is like
        he sets things in motion and allows people choices if us humans choose right then good things happen
        but if we choose wrong bad things will happen
        God gives us a choice to make and our decisions decide what will happen
        just because he knows what will happen doesnt mean he controls what happens
        he could, if he wanted to, control everything but instead he gives us a choice and allows us to live our own lives that are governed by him
        its like the government, they put laws in place and give us rules that should help our lives, they make some decisions for us but in the most part we make our own decisions and live our lives as we wish

      • Person One

        Heres something I have been talking about, which IO haven't really bought up. God can stop satan from doing stuff yeah? (Job 1), but he can also let satan do stuff, and will use it for good. He doesnt like causing us pain, or watching people die, or having people reject him, but he lets it happen
        aabnd will use it for good

      • Person Three

        but sometimes if we choose right bad stuff might happen cos maybe satan is trying to stop us from doing the right stuff.

        And i agree with Person One that he does let satan do stuff....cos like God doesnt want bad stuff to happen to us and he does make bad stuff happen to us...when that happens it is satan and maybe God is letting him do that to test our faith for him...or even to bring us closer to him in the end

      • Person Two

         if he doesnt like causing us pain, watching people die and people reject him why does he let it happen?
        he has the power to stop it
        what is the point of hurting the people he loves?

      • Person One

         Without God, we would never choose good. the only reason we would do 'good' is if we have hidden motives yeah? as shown by everyone in the world. So, the only way we can choose good, is through God, so he controls our good actions, putting it in our hearts to do good. (had a nother point in my mind, but I just lost it.)

      • Me 
        And so He'll permit us to date non-Christians, to glorify Him, yes?
        That's basically what you just said/implied, Person One.

        If He wanted a plan for my life to be devoted in Him, to come out of killing my little brothers, then it's not really what He should have done. Yes, it's in His plan ra ra ra.. But why do it that way?

        And Person Three, I agree with you in the last few sentences.
        So again to Person One, what if it's His plan to test my faith through dating a non-Christian?

      • Person Two

         so Person One what is the point of your preaching to others?
        God has already decided who is coming to heaven
        what is the point of missionaries, etc?

      • Person Two

         we dont need to tell people about the gospel
        God has already decided who is coming to heaven and who is going to hell

      • Person Two

         kinda defies the whole point of the bible

      • Me 
        We could be going to Hell. Right now, in a few minutes, in a few days, months, years. We could all die and go straight to Hell. It wouldn't be any different if we tried proclaiming the Good News of God, because it wouldn't make a difference anymore.

        I will always, no matter what, stand by my previous question, of why did God kill my little brothers if He wanted me to have faith in Him. That's just going to push me away from Him.

      • Person Three

         I think God wants everyone to come to heaven right...but not everyone will....I think that he will constantly provide ways and people and that to influence that person to become a christian but ultimately that person has to choose whether he is going to follow God or not...But in the end he will let them go to hell because they wouldnt listen to any of his ways to influence them to be christians..if that makes sense

      • Person One

        but Jess, will dating a non-christian glorify him? Sure, one out of 100 might, but its more likely to glorify him, if we obey him.

        He has a plan in it. We probably wont ever see the extent of it. Maybe his plan is to get you to tust him when everything in this idiot world is not good?

        It is not for us to make tests for our faith. I can say, yeah Giod, I'll go on drugs to test my faith in you, but faith in God is obeying him, so by disobeying him, your not doing so well in the test.

        Person Two, from our perspective, we have a choice. God chooses to use us, he doesnt have to. He doesnt need us, we need him. If you refuse to preach, he will get someone else to, and they will gett he reward instead of you (bible verse is in the bible, dont know where). God uses our evangelism to work in others. We plant the seed and water it, but God makes it grow (1 cor 3:6)

        If we dont tell people, then God will do it another way, but he choses to use us, for our encouragement and for our good.

      • Person Two

         you didnt answer my question
        what is the point of telling people if they are going to heaven or hell wether or not they get preached to?

      • Person One

        I think I agree Person Three, but I also am sure God has his hand on it ultimately. He can make them be saved (as Person Two says) but he chooses not to. why? who knows. He gives us the choice.

        Jess, I have no answer for you. He allowed your brothers to die, not because he wanted them to die, but because he knew that through that death (through that sin) he can make more good then if it had never happened

        The point of preaching to others is because God tells us to. Same with the point of praying. Its a trust thing.

      • Person Three

         oh yeah i know God has like the power to do like anything. He could just be like yeah you gonna be a christian and then BAM they become a christian but he doesnt do that...i mean he might with some people and maybe not with others...some he might let make decision themselves and that...i dunno haha

      • Person One

         Family bible reading be back ASAP

      • Person Two

        yes but what is the point of the bible and the gospel if God has decided who is going to heaven and who is not?
        for that matter what is the point of the earth?
        God made us to have a relationship with him
        the way you are saying it sounds like he made us just to control us
        the idea of making us was for us to choose him over ourselves
        what your saying, Person One, is that he made us to live out a pointless life (it doesnt matter if we tell others about God or not) and then have our eternity decided for us already

      • Me
         Person One, dating a non-Christian may not glorify Him at first, but it will give me a chance to tell him about the Gospel.
        As he has just stated, he's not that big on religion at the moment, but he wold like to read the Bible because it's a good story, and has a lot of life lessons in it. I think I'm already making progress, yes?

        And, by you saying that God wanted them to die:
        Through that death (through that sin) he can make more good then if it had never happened...
        You're saying that my little brothers could have grown up to be rapists, thieves or murderers, and yet killing them is okay? God took them away, and if He expects me to turn to Him through that, then He can think again.

      • Person Two

         what your saying nathanael is that God killed them
        making him a murderer
        i cant believe that of God because he is perfect

      • Me
         And then Person One will say that it's because of Satan. But if God never wanted murder, and if He truly really hated it, then why wouldn't He just get rid of Satan once and for all, so everything can be perfect again?

      • Person Three

         good point Jess...why doesnt he!

      • Person Two

         God is going to get rid of satan once and for all
        judgement day :P

      • Person One

         OK, Give me 20 mins to catch up :P Ok, so dad it telling me I have to do my work. I will read it later. But, either way, All of us need to find biblical evidence for what we are saying. So go get some and then agrue.

      • Person Two

        it says throughout the bible that God is perfect, doesnt commit a sin
        if you payed an assasin to kill someone you are as much to blame as the assasin you killed the person
        your saying God lets the devil kill people
        doesnt that make God a sinner?

      • Me

        I just don't understand why it is so bad to date a non-Christian.
        Yes, in the Bible it says we shouldn't marry them, but who said anything about marriage?
        But that must mean we're leading them on. Which isn't correct at all, because some people just like living in the moment, and not looking toward the future.
        Maybe it's great to date non-Christian so we can bring them to God. We would have more chances and more possibilities to bring them to God if we were in a close relationship with them, because they would want to make us happy, and they would want us to stay with them. So really, we can date non-Christians, because it's so much more likely that they could become Christians through a relationship. And I doubt some people are going to end a good relationship just to turn around and tell their partners that they need to be a Christian to be in a relationship with them.

        Also, if God never wanted us to date non-Christians, why not just make everyone a Christian?

      • Person Two

         dating non christians is alright so long as you are always closer to God then to your boyfriend/girlfriend
        dont ever give God up for a human being

      • Me
         And if we're not always closer to God (theoretically), if someone were to happen in the relationship that made us draw nearer to Him, then that would also perfectly fine to date a non-Christian, because we'd be going back to God, thus repenting.

      • Person Two
         but you shouldnt have to repent in the first place
        much better if you never got further away in the first place

      • Person One
         I'm not here at the moment, But dad just said, if you guys want to come around and we can discuss this with him, then We shall get Pizza. Dad knows heaps, and he has investigated it and made decisions about it, I recommend that we do this. You can ask him any question, if he doesn't know the answer, he will try very hard to find out.

      • Me

        True, what if you were further away before entering the relationship? Or what if you were never even with God before entering the relationship?
        Or, what if it was the other way around? What if God let you be in a relationship with a non-Christian, who became a Christian through something completely different?
        Anything could happen, which is why I'm so curious as to why God just doesn't fully control everything, or just destroy Satan once and for all.

      • Me
         Gluten-free pizza?

      • Person Two

        it much likelier that you will be pulled further away from God then be pulled closer so the danger level is very high
        some people will risk it some wont
        God doesnt fully control everything, his influence is in almost everything but he doesnt directly control everything
        as there wouldve been no point in making us and giving us free will

      • Me
        My question still stands... What if?
        What if we're pulled closer towards God?
        What if the non-Christian is pulled towards God?
        What if the whole relationship turns out to be completely based on God, everything is Godly, and both partners turn to God... What if only one of them is going to Heaven?
        What if God only chooses one of them to go into Heaven? The whole purpose of sharing the Gospel is defeated. The whole idea of having a Christian relationship is defeated.

      • Person Three

        but doesnt it also depend on the personality of the non-christian lets say that the person like is a like extreme athiest and just wants to convince everyone that there is no God and everything...then (obviously) that relationship isnt exactly one to be involved in...but what if the person is like open to it..and isnt going to try to change you and is open to what you have to say...i mean not all non-christians will try....but then...also....just being with that could make you open to so many temptations that depending on the strength of the person they could be open to....
        Every person is different..some might be more open to the influence of others because they are unsure of there own that case then they really should be with someone who is strong in their faith with God so that they can help them grow in their faith...
        But what if the christian person was extremely stubborn and wouldnt change for anything...then the non-christian might realise that what they believe and have to say is worth listening to and that..
        also having the attachment of the relationship could mean that the non-christian likely to listen to them....or that the christian likely to follow the do you really know what it is gonna turn out like

      • Person Two

         being an extreme athesiest kindve defies the point of being an atheiest :P
        they talk about God as much as christians do
        true athesiests dont ever speak of God

      • Person Three

         you know what i mean!!

      • Person Two

        yes i do :P
        and i agree with you

      • Me 
        Person Three
        , what you said is exactly what I was going to write! :P
        I agree with you.
        I don't see how it is that bad for someone to date a non-Christian if they're open to it, which is what I've been trying to say.
        With previous experience, and current, dating a non-Christian who is open with religion and who respects your beliefs can be a good thing. They're more willing to be involved in whatever religion you choose, because they respect you, and because they're not necessarily that worried about the outcome of the religious side to it.

      • Me
        My dad just posted this on my status, and I fully agree with him:
        "The Bible doesn't actually forbid the dating of Non-Christians, rather the dating of non believers (Corinthians 6:14). So really God permits Christians dating Muslims, Jews etc. Even those who have no defined Faith, but acknowledge the existence of God are permitted to be dated."
        So Person One, there's your Biblical evidence.

      • Person Three

        what if being with the non-christian made the christian in the relationship realise how bad the life without God is so then your faith in God will then get stronger and then if they see that it might help them gain a faith in God.

        but also....personally i don't see a point in going out with someone unless it is going to actually lead to something more...with going with a non-christian they might not want it to ever lead anywhere (im not saying this bout your guy Jess as i dont know him) but yeah if they were just going out with you for the sake of going out with someone then there is no real might be best to be friends with them and then if they then turn to God then in the end something might happen from that.
        but then that probably cos i think you should be like real good friends first and then see what happens after yeah

      • Me
        I agree Person Three, exactly what I've told Person One in the past actually.

        I personally am not going to date someone if I don't see something more happening either. Most people are like that, and most people's partners may see it the same way too, or they may not.
        If my boyfriend was dating me just for the sake of it, then yes, I would be hurt, but I wouldn't see it as that big of a thing. We're still young, and life to me is all about living like there's no tomorrow. Cliche' I know, but I would much rather have a good relationship where I can try and tell him about God, then not have one where he can hear about the Gospel, and where we can both step out of it having learnt something, at all.

        Some people who enter relationships like this have never heard of the Gospel before. So it's better to try, than to have never tried at all.

      • Person One

         Still haven't read, and cant yet, but I am working out my viewpoint, and suggest you do likewise. Type in arminianism vs calvinism to Google, it might help you. Go by biblical answers, not personal ones. Right now, Romans 6 and John 6:35-40 should be taken into consideration.

      • Me 
        My viewpoint's been worked out for a while now...
        I would rather stick to my own personal experiences at the moment, because unlike the Bible, they've helped me more.

      • Person Four

        A Christian dating a non-Christian OR a non-beliver is simply unbiblical. In the NT era it was very rare that a woman had a choice who she should marry. However, in the very rare circumstances where she was free to marry whoever she wanted, Paul wrote: "...she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must BELONG TO THE LORD" (1 Corinthians 7:39). When Paul uses the word "Lord" he is speaking about Jesus. Given that a Christian is only permitted to marry a Christian, it follows that for a Christian to date a non-Christian is unloving, as it's simply leading them on. Some might argue that it gives a good opportunity to evangelise the non-believer, but that's a load of rubbish. The message that the unbeliever really hears is: Jesus is lord...except when you want to ignore him. That is simply not the gospel. No matter how many good words you use, that's still the message you're actually preaching.

        In a church I used to be at, the bible study group where the people had the most frustrations was the women's group where the majority were married to non-Christian husbands. They would implore people to date true believers (ie Christians) only.

      • Me
        Good reasoning.

        I don't really have much to add apart from the fact that I still stand by everything I've said.

        Maybe one day I'll change my mind, but for now I've decided to basically give up on believing in anything. I've stated my part, asked more questions than intended and, if anything, I'm less of a Christian than what I was before entering this discussion.

        I don't know what will come out of this comment, or if it will even make that big of a difference, but I don't think there's much point in me believing in something or someone who's just going to continue to hurt me.
        You can agree, you can disagree- I don't care.
        But I just ask that whatever you do, whether you be Christian, non-Christian, or undecided, that you don't try and change my opinion. Because the fact of the matter is, it won't be changing anytime soon.

      • Person Two

         Person Four, the point of not marrying a non believer or one who doesnt belong to the lord is to stop us from putting them before God
        if we do marry them but make sure they know that God comes first wouldnt that be setting a good example to them?
        showing them that your love for God comes before anything else
        even the person who you love most in the world?

        i am not a calvanist but in true belief of it if we did end up marrying the non christian it wouldnt be by our choice, God would have made us do it so therefore it would have to be considered right as God doesnt make mistakes

        • Person Four

          ‎@Person Two: God's will and God's plan are 2 different things. Is it God's will that an innocent man suffer and die? The answer must be "NO". Is it God's plan that Jesus died on the cross? The answer must be "Yes". If I committed any sin (including marrying a non-Christian), I would never dare say "God made it happen". God is surely sovereign over all things but that doesn't mean he can be attributed blame for our evil. By the logic you've used in your second paragraph, I could say that if I went out and murdered someone, it wasn't my choice but God's choice, and God doesn't make mistakes.

          Your statement about marrying a non-Christian being wrong because we might put them before God is unfounded. It's wrong because it unites that which is holy with that which is defiled, and because it makes for a marriage where the gospel can't be modelled as it should be (as in Ephesians 5).

          More generally, I'm concerned that so many people seem to argue away from obedience to God's word, rather than towards it. It appears that a prevalent attitude is: "how can I get around what the Bible clearly says", rather than "how can I obey what the Bible clearly says". There are some things about the teaching of John Calvin that we might find unpalatable, but that doesn't mean they should be rejected. If they are in kilter with the clear teaching of scripture (which I happen to think they are) then they need to be heeded.

        • ‎@Jessica: there's a great big sign at the beach that says: "Caution, sharks!". When someone comes along and says: "I'm going for a swim", I quickly tell them to turn around and go away, because there's clearly great danger. But should they then retort: "But I don't believe in sharks", would I be right to stop bothering them and let them go in? Absolutely not! If you reject Jesus now then he will reject you later on, and that results in something more dreadful than I care to imagine. True Christians will therefore always seek to change your opinion because they have love toward you. You can say you don't believe anything all you want, but the reality is that there is great danger in your position, so I implore you: change your opinion. Read the gospel of Mark (it's the easiest one) in the New Testament with your adult mind. Don't let me convince you of the truth - learn it for yourself. Peace.

        • Person Two
           ‎@ Person Four
          i dont plan on marrying a non christian its just i like to argue
          What is the difference between Gods will and Gods plan if God controls everything then whatever happens by all rights was his plan

        • Person Four

          Perhaps using different words will help. Let's say God's "will" and God's "desire". It was God's will that Jesus be crucified to pay for the sins of the world. It was NOT God's desire that an innocent man suffer and die a cruel death. Both of these statements, according to the Bible MUST be true, and therefore, no matter what logic we ourselves might employ, it MUST be the case that there is a difference between what God desires to happen and what he actually allows to happen.

          Just because God allows a Christian to marry a non-Christian is therefore not enough evidence to suggest that such a course of action is desired by God. To the contrary, his word (the Bible) makes it clear that God certainly does NOT desire for a Christian to marry a non-Christian. But just as in Romans chapter 1, he allows people to commit sin; he 'gives them over' to do what they want to do.

        • Person Two
           but God is soveriegn and controls absoluetely everything
          so therefore he wouldve made them marry the non christian
          well according to calvanism

        • Person Four

          Person Two, from the way you reason about this stuff I strongly suspect you're not really understanding Calvinism properly.

          Have you ever read any of the work by John Calvin? Within the first few chapters of his most influential work (Institutes of the Christian Religion), Calvin argues very strongly that God's sovereignty does not ever negate man's culpability for sin. Calvin would never assert that God "made them marry the non Christian". He would say that "God allowed the sinful action to take place".

          I'm happy to chat about the teaching of John Calvin of course, but for the issue at hand you'll notice I've been referring only to the Bible. Will you concede that the Bible makes it clear that:

          a) a Christian marrying a non-Christian (and therefore dating one) is unloving in disobedient?

          b) that God is not to be blamed for our sin even though he is completely sovereign over all things?

          Unless you accept these two, I contend that you're not actually accepting the plain teaching of scripture, regardless of what your might think about the teaching of John Calvin.

        • Person Two
           but as God allows it to happen he isnt stopping it
          therefore making it his choice that we marry the non christian?

        • Person One
           Just something a bit off topic, but really good. When I left last night, I prayed that God would get someone else to continue to discuss it - and I suggested to God (sounds weird I know) Person Four or Person Five, and look what happened :) So, to some reading this, God does hear our prayers, and he will answer (although his answer may be no, in which case you need to trust he knows best anyway).

        • Person Two
           i would like but my ipod doesnt let me :(

        • Person One
           Hahaha, anyway, back to discussion. Person Four?

        • Person Two
          also what happens if you marry a christian then they stop being a chriatian?
          do you divorce them or stay married to them?

        • Person Three
           God says no to divorce
        •  There is a verse somewhere bout that

        • Me
           So basically, everything in the Bible is against people. My parents got divorced, and my Mum (a Christian) is now married to a non-Christian, the guy who's evidence seems a lot clearer to me than most of you. She's a Christian, and if anything, she's bringing my step-dad to God. That could be the same for me, or for anyone.

        • Person Three
           I think God hates divorce yeah,……but what if you in like real bad marriage. And divorce is the only option you know.....what about then?

          • Me
            In my parent's case divorce was the only option, but the point is that my mum's now husband, a non-Christian, is probably more closer to God than he's ever been.

          • Person Three

             Is it then like ok to divorce?
          •  Like in God's eyes would it be ok

          • Me

            The Bible says no, but it also says no to marrying non-Christians, and yet I still state that my step-dad seems more of a Christian than ever, after marrying my mum, a divorcee.
            Was it then right for my mum to marry a non-Christian, because he's more of a Christian now? Or is it still sin, and will she still be punished for marrying him, and will he be punished for not being a Christian?
            To me, I see my parent's marriage as a fantastic thing, because my mum can share God with her husband... But no, wait, that can't be right, because in the Bible it says that we CAN NOT MARRY NON-CHRISTIANS.

          • Person Three

             Hmmm good point Jess. I don't know!! As I say I think it really sorta depends on the personalities of the people.

          • Me

            Exactly. I don't mean to bring this back to me, even though it was kinda about me... Ahh anyways, I think it's fine to date a non-Christian who's open about Christianity. My boyfriend (as I've said earlier) is okay with me being a Christian, and I get a vibe that he's curious about it. It's just frustrating when Christians shove their beliefs about dating non-Christians down my throat.
            If my boyfriend were a Christian and we were just dating with no prospect of marriage, it would be fine. And I can bet you my life on that. Sure, people might say things about it, but as long as he's a Christian, it's fine.

          • Person Four

            ‎@Jessica: there's a number of things going on here so I'll respond bit by bit.

            The claim that "basically, everything in the Bible is against people" sounds like venting. That's totally wrong and I think we both know it. God so loved the world that he gave his son Jesus...

            Regarding your mum's divorce and remarriage, I've never met her and I would never dare condemn her personally - even if I thought what she did was sinful, it's no more or less sinful than I am everyday. The point is to grapple with what the Bible teaches, in order to work out how to be obedient to it. That is very different from dealing with another person and pointing out where they need to repent or be encouraged.

            As for your mother's new husband being "probably more closer to God than he's ever been", I actually believe it in part. The Bible does teach that a non-Christian marriage partner is sanctified for the benefit of the children. This doesn't mean they're saved, but it does mean God will work on them to the extent that the children in the relationship are able to be brought up in a Christian environment. However, to talk as if there's somehow a spectrum of closer or further from God is not really Biblical. Either Jesus is your Lord or he is not: there is no middle ground.

            Regarding the idea that your mum could have been right to marry your step dad on the basis that he's now closer to God; this is not a Biblical position. Let me be clear, I'm in no way commenting on the validity of their marriage. Your argument is an 'ends-justifies-the-means' approach. If I do something wrong but it results in good, that doesn't mean that what I did suddenly becomes acceptable. You ask: "will he be punished for not being a Christian?" To that, I'm very sad to answer that yes, all people who reject Jesus face horrible consequences. I'll pray that God convicts your step dad of the truth so that he might be saved. Once again, let me be clear: I don't 'look down my nose' at non-Christians. I'm exactly as deserving of hell as they are - it's just that I've been forgiven and my sin has been paid for, and Jesus did it all - there's nothing good about me such that I can claim to deserve forgiveness. Before I became a Christian I was living in a relationship that the Bible said was wrong, so I have no right to take a 'moral high ground' against you or your mum or anyone.

          • ‎@Person Two: look, you're not really getting it. You've basically said over and over that if something happens God approves of it on the basis of his being completely sovereign. That's a very narrow and frankly unbiblical idea. As for what happens if someone marries a Christian who then falls away, the Bible is clear: you're to remain married - you've not sinned.

          • ‎@Jessica: Seeing as we've never met I feel uncomfortable to say this, and I hope that (as it says in Proverbs) you'll understand me 'stabbing you in the front' as a well-intentioned, rather than a negative thing. Nathaniel will (hopefully) attest to the fact that I genuinely want what's best for others, even if that involves saying some strong words. I hope you understand that I endevour to speak in love. So here goes...

            I think it's very common to see people argue AWAY from obedience to the Bible with great vigour. The Bible says a lot of things very clearly, but some of them we don't like because they get in the way of us living the lives we want to live. To have Jesus as lord always involves very difficult sacrifices.

            You've said: "I think it's fine to date a non-Christian who's open about Christianity". I think we both know that this view is not supported by the Bible. Why not just say: "I know God says what I'm doing is wrong, but I'm going to ignore him and do it anyway". If you're honest with yourself, I think this is where you'll arrive. If you really are a Christian you'll have a deep-down conviction (no matter how faint) that you are not being obedient to God in this area. I humbly suggest prayer on your part. Peace.

          • Person One

             Agreed with Person Four

          • Person Three

             I wanna say something but I can't seem to get it into words right.....

          • Me

            I understand what you've said, but what I meant by my step-dad becoming closer to God, is that until he married my mum, he wasn't really as open and accepting to God as he is now. He's still not a Christian, and to be honest I don't think he'll become one any time soon. But the fact still stands that if my mum hadn't "sinned" in marrying a non-Christian, then he would never have been in a Christian family, thus implying that they're marriage is a Godly thing, because he's now more likely to turn to God. If he does, does that mean their marriage is still "sinful" or is it Godly?

            I know that what I'm saying is daft, and mostly out of anger and frustration, but it doesn't change the way I feel about it. I understand, and appreciate that you're saying all this out of Godly love, but, for me, I'm starting to dislike the Christian attitude toward everything. I mean no offence at all.

            Yes, I used to be a very strong Christian, and yes, I did used to believe almost everything in the Bible. But from personal experience I've almost always agreed on the Christian and Non-Christian relationships. I don't see it as that big of a deal if a Christian dates a non-Christian. That's my opinion, and it'll probably never change either way.

            Perhaps it's too fast for me to say, but maybe I'm not a Christian anymore. In short: I'm kind of over people trying to force me to believe, though I appreciate their efforts.


          • Person Three

             Once again was gonna say something but can't seem to put it right hahaha
          •  would it be different thoughts about it all if the christian and the non-christian were just friends instead of going out with each other...because if the relationship was going to help the non-christian maybe build a relationship with God...wouldnt it have the same effect with just being friends.?
          • as i said i am having trouble putting it into words...

          • Me

             You mean if they were just friends with feelings for each other..?
            I don't really understand, haha. :/

          • Person Three

             no no i mean..sorta changing topic ish but i mean
            would it still be sinful to be like good friends with a non christian...?

          • Me
             Apparently not, so I've heard...

          • Person Three

             Cos sometimes I think being friends with a non-Christian could be easier in someways......I did have some great non-Christian friend…not all of our friendships ended well but some dis

          • Me

            Yeah, I guess it's fine to be friends with them, otherwise the Gospel wouldn't be spread... But it leads me back to non-Christians and Christians dating.. If they were just "friends" (not dating, but still having the same feelings for eachother), it would be exactly the same as dating thus "sinning", even though they're not necessarily officially dating.
            If that makes sense.

              • Person Three

            • Yeah yeah that makes sense. Hmmmm I dunno

            • Person One

              I know aye :P.
              Jess, I think the reason why dating would be considered sinful, would be because marriage is sinful. Dating, at least how I see it (as I have said before), is like preparation for marriage. Sure, God can, and might use it for good, but it would also bring about a whole heap of temptation that could be avoided otherwise yeah? and even the 'strongest' Christian finds it hard to fight Satan. So it might/very possibly will lead to more sin then if it didn't happen. Now yes, Jesus has paid for our sins, but we have to be living in opposition to Satan, and seeking to obey God in every aspect of our lives, not just the easy ones. Sadly being a Christian means making sacrifices you don't want to make (I think any true Christian can tell you that).
              Also, a companion such as a boyfriend, should be able to support you in everything and encourage you in everything, and so: one who does not agree with you on some major things in life wont be able to do this as well as someone who does agree (ie. is a Christian)


            • Person Three

               this is a bit off topic...but you know how like Satan makes stuff real hard for people who are Christians cos they arent with him...well does he still make stuff real bad for people who arent christians..?

            • Person One

              If they aren't Christians, then he will make things 'good' for them, so they wont turn to God. Sure, both parties will have good and bad times (Christians/non-Christians) but Satan wont stir up non-Christians to turn them to God, he will try to keep them lazy and keep them from looking for God. Makes sense? (I think I'm right in this) but then we have to remember that even though a short life here may be good, non-Christians will suffer for eternity (wish they wouldn't, but they will) while Christians will have an eternity of good in heaven.

            • Person Three

               yeah it mostly makes sense..i was just wondering bout that. :)

            • Me

               Person One, I know that it's "preparation for marriage" but why does it need to be like that? The majority of people who date in high-school don't end up marrying the same person they were dating. If they do, then good on them, but I just don't see what all the fuss is about. It's not against the law, and I know quite a few youth leaders and parents who date/dated without the prospect of marriage.
              We shouldn't need to make sacrifices in the first place.
              But what if they agree, they just don't live by it as much as you?

            • Person One

              Well, I think because, if you had the choice now, would you marry him? If you could? Just because others do it, doesn't make it right.
              We have to make sacrifices because people will be sinning around us and we will want to also, but we shouldn't, because we should want what God wants first.
              If they agree, they would be Christian right?

            • Person Five

              wow their is aot of typing. Ok my point of view lol. I belive that dating a non-christian is well... wrong and against god for the reasons Person One, Four and Three have said. In the bible it talks about not being yolked together. Well what dose yoked mean??? it means to form one. which is the same as marrage ( to become one with god if you know what I mean). so the bible says don't be yoked. Well I say don't even take the steps towards that by dating a non-christian. You may bring up Romans 4:2 and Ephesians 4:22-24 were it talks about going into the world but read carfully and the essence of it is saying be FRIENDS with them but don't yolk with them. I think the price to pay is a gamble to go out with a sinner.
              This is no little event;
              This IS LIFE or DEATH.

    So, there you have it... My opinion, and a few others.
    It's a lot to take in, and I'm still debating... But no matter what, for now my statements and my beliefs stand firm.

    To be honest, I don't know at the moment.

    I've stated my reasons so many times, and yet people persist on trying to change the way I think. It is annoying, and it does get on my nerves, even if they are only doing out of love.

    I have a lot to sort out, and I would like to do it on my own.

    I know it's going to be just as hard as before, if not worse. But I'll get through it... I always do!

    I really do appreciate everyone's concerns, I just wish you would let me decide how to live my life.

    I don't mean that harshly, I mean it honestly.

    As I've said earlier on Facebook, I will stand by what I believe in, because I AM stubborn, and because I want to be happy.

    If dating a non-Christian is unGodly in other people's eyes, but fine in mine, then I'm not going to change. I don't live to please anyone but myself.

    Maybe one day I'll rebuild my relationship with God... In my own time, and without people shoving their beliefs down my throat, as some of of you have done.

    Thank you for your time, love and care.

    And guess what?

    I'm going out with a non-Christian, and I'm not ashamed of it.

    Girl With An Addiction
    xoxo :P